Palyul Times (PT): Khen Rinpoche, with our heartfelt greetings, we beg you for an interview regarding the recognition of His Holiness the Fourth Penor Rinpoche. The news of the rebirth of His Holiness brought an immense sense of happiness to his many disciples, and also marked the end of the sadness and uncertainty left by the passing away of His Holiness the Third Penor Rinpoche on 27th March, 2009.
(PT): Khen Rinpoche, what was your first reaction upon hearing about the swift return of our compassionate guru, His Holiness Penor Rinpoche?
Khenchen Tsewang Gyatso (KTG): When we first got the letter from Kyabje Jadral Rinpoche about the recognition of our beloved guru Penor Rinpoche’s reincarnation, I was so excited and felt more joy and happiness than I ever felt before on any occasion. It was like the bright sunshine that clears out the darkness of time. Besides that, it was a huge relief from constantly worrying about when Jadral Rinpoche would find the reincarnation of our Holiness.
PT: It is very evident that the faculty of Namdroling Monastery in south India are continuing the virtuous activities initiated by His Holiness for the welfare of Dharma and beings. Khen Rinpoche, besides looking after the affairs of the monasteries, institutes and Dharma centres established by His Holiness across the world, what were the measures taken for searching for the true and unmistaken reincarnation of His Holiness the Third Penor Rinpoche?
KTG: When our father-like guru His Holiness Penor Rinpoche passed away, it was a great wake-up call of impermanence for so many beings. I never thought that our Rinpoche would pass away so soon, but on the other hand, it really helped me to experience the impermanence that comes without any expectation or even without any notice. Even though we hear all the teachings on impermanence, it remains a mere word, and we do not realize that it can occur in the next moment. However, our Holiness left behind everything including maintaining the existence of Namdroling Monastery, the institute, the nunnery, the junior high school, the three-year retreats, and all the responsibilities involved in taking care of Namdroling and continuing its goal of promoting the Dharma and its teachings to benefit beings whenever possible.
It was a great shocking situation; however, we worked together to maintain His Holiness’ Dharma activities including Namdroling’s administration. Because of His Holiness’ blessing and his final advice, we could manage everything without any disturbances.
Among these responsibilities, our biggest responsibility was to find the reincarnation of our Holiness. We had requested Kyabje Jadral Rinpoche to find His Holiness’ reincarnation; fortunately, he accepted our request, and he also advised us to perform many pujas and specific prayers. We carried through all the accumulations of those pujas and prayers in our monastery according to the numbers suggested by Rinpoche. During that time, the three Heart Sons, the three senior khenpos, tulkus, other khenpos, lopons and all the monks and nuns of our monastery, including monks from other monasteries and many lay followers, all naturally joined together to perform different aspects of prayers for the swift rebirth of our Holiness.
Even all our students abroad in Asia and in the West all dedicated their time to perform a huge number of prayers and chanting for the swift rebirth of our Holiness. These efforts and prayers, done with single-pointed devotion to Holiness, definitely created the positive conditions for our beloved guru to come back soon with a healthy, young body.
PT: Khen Rinpoche, when and how was the recognition of His Holiness officially confirmed?
KTG: At the beginning of last year, 2013, we got the letter from Kyabje Jadral Rinpoche about the recognition of His Holiness Penor Rinpoche’s reincarnation. He was found in Tibet, in between Lhokha and Dakpo, in a place named Dunglung Thramo Drak which was a holy place for revealing the cycle of Longchen Nyingtik practice by Kunkhyen Jigme Lingpa. The letter was opened during the beginning of Holiness’ cremation ceremony by a faculty member of Namdroling in front of Kyabje Karma Kuchen Rinpoche and Tulku Thubzang Rinpoche. We all were very happy and excited just hearing this news. At the same time, we were completely relieved from all sorts of worries about finding our beloved guru’s reincarnation. At the end of last year in December, I was back in the monastery after my teaching tour of our dharma centres in the United States, when we received the final confirmation letter from Kyabje Karma Kuchen Rinpoche about the recognition of our Yangsi Rinpoche. They found him exactly according to Jadral Rinpoche’s letter.
PT: It is widely believed that His Holiness Jadral Rinpoche’s spiritual guidance played a central role in identifying the true reincarnation of His Holiness Penor Rinpoche. Khen Rinpoche, would you elaborate on this and the sequence of procedures that succeeded in realizing this goal?
KTG: Yes, it was completely under the guidance and prediction of Kyabje Jadral Rinpoche. As I explained earlier, first we received the letter. Then, since the head of our lineage, Kyabje Karma Kuchen Rinpoche, and Chogtrul Thubzang Rinpoche reside in Palyul, Tibet, it made great sense that they would search for the child who was born in the Year of the Rabbit in that area of Lhokha, Kongpo, and Dakpo.
Based on Jadral Rinpoche’s letter, Kuchen Rinpoche sent a few lamas to search that area to see if they could find any specific sign or indication of the reincarnation of His Holiness Penor Rinpoche. When they got to a very remote area in Dakpo, they found a few houses at a certain distance. The first house which they wanted to go to was a two-storey building built with stones. Once they got very close to this house, they saw a child running around, playing and shouting. Then, suddenly, they all heard the voice of our late Holiness, and they all were very excited and also felt a warm feeling. They talked among themselves about how they had heard His Holiness Penor Rinpoche’s voice. Then, as they walked towards the house, the boy saw them coming from the top of the house, and he waved his hand as if he were asking them to come up. They were very surprised and went up to the wide balcony of the house. When they got there, the boy was holding something in his hand, some sort of biscuits. He shared and gave some to each of them. All the lamas in their hearts confirmed that this must be our Rinpoche’s reincarnation. But they still had to examine him very carefully in all aspects.
Then they reported the results to Kuchen Rinpoche and Tulku Thubzang Rinpoche, but they were told to search around that area in other houses to make sure not to be mistaken. So, they searched the houses within walking distance of that area for two more days. The roads are not good, and they had to go up and down the hills. They met with a few other kids born in the same year, but they were all just normal kids.
After that, they explained clearly to Kuchen Rinpoche and Tulku Thubzang Rinpoche how they had searched and found him and so forth. According to that report, Kuchen Rinpoche and Tulku Thubzang went to see him for the first time. The moment they saw him they were absolutely without any doubt, and they confirmed with confidence this is the reincarnation of our Rinpoche in so many ways. Finally, they reported everything to Jadral Rinpoche, and he confirmed with determination, saying this is the one. In addition to all this evidence, Jadral Rinpoche mentioned that he didn’t look for him; Penor Rinpoche actually told him he was there. With all these auspicious signs and logical reasons, it was confirmed by Jadral Rinpoche. Also, Tulku Thubzang Rinpoche had his own vision of the unmistaken and true reincarnation of His Holiness Penor Rinpoche.
PT: Khen Rinpoche, you are one of the three Khenchens of Namdroling Monastery, rendering great service for the welfare of Dharma and beings along with the Three Heart Sons of His Holiness the Third Penor Rinpoche. Khen Rinpoche, kindly share your feelings on upholding Buddhadharma on the basis of these three times: during the presence of His Holiness the Third Penor Rinpoche, after the passing away of His Holiness and after the recognition and enthronement of His Holiness the Fourth Penor Rinpoche.
KTG: In general, based on the sutrayana teachings, Buddha said that the Buddhadharma would exist on this earth for about 5,000 years and then would decline in the degenerating period. But, there is hope that if we could promote Dharma teachings and if a majority of the population could follow the Buddhadharma and practise properly, then we could slow down the degeneration of Dharma rather than experience a rapid decline. Because of that hope, many of our great masters including H.H. Penor Rinpoche worked so hard to promote Dharma teachings throughout the world, even in his late age, by travelling far and wide without caring about his health or comfort.
While Rinpoche travelled, he said that we also have to take care of the monks and nuns in Namdroling Monastery by training them to be great teachers who can help many other sentient beings through the teaching of Buddhdharma with compassion and loving-kindness. In this way, Rinpoche worked hard to establish Namdroling Monastery, the Ngagyur Nyingma Institute (the lamas’ college), and the nunnery—Tsogyal Shedrubling—and so forth. So during the Third Penor Rinpoche’s time dharma flourished extensively like sunshine around the world, as we all have witnessed. As a result of Holiness’ dharma activity, many students graduated from our institute with the title of Khenpo, Lopon, and Vajracharya who have spread out in many places and have upheld Dharma in a very extensive way.
Even though our Holiness passed away in 2009, with his blessing the faculty members of Namdroling and the Board members of the Institute, of the monastery, the nunnery and the junior high school, all have worked together to manage the whole administration of Namdroling to continue Holiness’ dharma activity. We have not reduced the management of studies in general education in Buddhist philosophy, the performance of drubchen practices, or the one-month retreat on Namchö Ngondro, Tsalung, and Dzogchen Thogyal practices as were laid out by our Holiness. So, the upholding of Dharma activity, including year-round pujas and prayers, has been well-maintained.
Because many great masters are still alive in Tibet and India such as Kyabje Karma Kuchen Rinpoche and Tulku Thubzang Rinpoche and many other great masters in India—khenpos and tulkus—who can train Yangsi Rinpoche properly, I believe that in the future the Dharma will flourish in general and that holding the lineage and transmitting empowerments and teachings will be well carried-out by our Yangsi Rinpoche including the whole cycle of the Namchö and Palyul lineages. As Yangsi Rinpoche grows he will be well-trained in all levels of Buddhadharma including the higher and inner tantras such as gyud, lung, mengag, and the Dzogchen Great Perfection. I have full confidence in Yangsi Rinpoche because he has all the levels of experience and realization reflecting the positive habitual tendencies of his previous life. Because of his vast wisdom and great compassion to all his disciples and his wish to benefit all beings, his Dharma activity will illuminate the world bringing great peace and happiness.
PT: Recognition, enthronement and formal training are fundamental parts of becoming a qualified spiritual master. Khen Rinpoche, why are these the three indispensable steps adopted by the followers of Tibetan Buddhism?
KTG: It has become very important to find the reincarnations of the great masters like our Holiness because their powerful dharma activity benefits countless beings and they hold the pure lineage with proper training and teachings that can pacify all the negativities in the world and bring peace and happiness. He did so much for the Buddhadharma and benefited so many beings. The proper recognition of previous masters’ reincarnations is important so that they can carry through the same activities to benefit beings and to uphold the Dharma teachings and traditions.
When we find a true and unmistaken reincarnation like our Holiness, one that is recognized by the most qualified masters like Kyabje Jadral Rinpoche, then the enthronement ceremony becomes the second most important as it is the final recognition that announces this event to the world. For example, when a prince has matured and become qualified in many ways, then he is enthroned to declare that he is the successor of the king and the public recognizes and honours him as the present king. Once he has been enthroned as the king, he has the responsibility to care for his citizens and protect the country.
Similarly, when a reincarnated master is enthroned, then he has the greatest responsibility to preserve the Dharma teachings and hold the lineage purely in all aspects of training and education—including his own practice—so that Dharma students can develop their realization all the way to complete enlightenment by following the teachings and instructions of the master. For this reason, it is very important that Yangsi Rinpoche receives complete training from qualified masters starting with learning the alphabet all the way to the highest levels of teachings and practices including meditation and three-root deity practices in order to gain the actual realization of the deity nature and absolute truth.
PT: Khen Rinpoche, would you brief us on the enthronement ceremony and celebration of His Holiness in Tibet?
KTG: Kyabje Karma Kuchen Rinpoche announced that the Yangsi Rinpoche enthronement would be held on 31st July in the Palyul mother monastery in Tibet on the fourth day of the sixth month, a very auspicious day according to the Tibetan lunar calendar, which was the day of the Buddha’s Enlightenment and, later, the day he gave his first Dharma teaching. So, the actual enthronement ceremony took place in Tibet and was mainly organized by the Palyul mother monastery and also Namdroling Monastery, as Holiness’ main Dharma seat in India.
On 28th July Yangsi Rinpoche with the whole entourage was invited to Palyul Monastery with a grand ceremonial reception, in which more than 40,000 people participated including many high lamas and many heads of monasteries from Tibet and India. Then, on 31st July the actual enthronement started about 9:30 AM in the Palyul mother monastery when Yangsi Rinpoche was invited into the temple. Then Tulku Thubzang Rinpoche, the most senior and learned master, conferred the enthronement empowerments through Kuchen Rinpoche, including purification and offering auspicious substances to enable Yangsi Rinpoche to regain all his wisdom and realization. The local Chinese officials also honoured the enthronement of Yangsi Rinpoche with prayers to praise the special qualities of the previous Holiness and, with full respect, also offered a recognition letter to Yangsi Rinpoche. About 10 AM the heads of Palyul Monastery, Kyabje Karma Kuchen Rinpoche and Tulku Thubzang Rinpoche, as well as Darthang Chogtrul Rinpoche, joined by Namdroling’s head lamas Gyangkhang Tulku Rinpoche and Mugsang Tulku Rinpoche, the three senior khenpos followed by other khenpos and tulkus of Namdroling, began the body, speech and mind mandala offering to Yangsi Rinpoche. Then, many other high lamas including Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche’s Yangsi, Darthang Lhatrul Rinpoche, Tulku Namkye Nyingpo Rinpoche from Yachen Monastery, Khen Rinpoche from Serta Monastery and many more monks and laypeople continued making mandala offerings continuously for two days.
This was one of the most successful enthronement ceremonies ever accomplished. On 2nd August, the celebration of enthronement took place with Tibetan cultural dance, folk dance, Tibetan opera, songs and many other entertainments.
PT: A medical study conducted in the United Kingdom suggests that, based on scientific investigation, life can continue after death. Khen Rinpoche, is this a new era of scientific advancement that can lead to the recognition of reincarnation through scientific proof?
KTG: Yes, to some extent, the 21st century scientists have developed highly technological equipment in their scientific investigation that they use to do experiments on life after death and on consciousness after death. Through these experiments they have found that consciousness lasts longer after death than they thought.
Based on their continuous investigation and experiments, they are coming very close to finding that something continues after death, but still they don’t have any direct evidence to prove that another life follows the one that just ended. However, they are having a better understanding of consciousness which exists after death. So now many of the modern famous scientists and neurological scientists are very much interested in the Buddhist idea and philosophical explanation of a next life. These great scientists have had many years of dialogue with His Holiness the Dalai Lama and some Buddhist scholars on this topic.
I hope that they will soon come to accept and believe that there is life after death or there is rebirth after death as a result of their research into how consciousness lasts after death. But as yet, they don’t have proof or a clear explanation of it. I think reincarnation is very difficult to prove by scientific experiments or investigating through modern technology because mind is not substantial or matter, and scientists don’t have any equipment or special technology to experiment on non-substantial phenomena like mind. Besides that, to see or to know the next life one must obtain transcendental wisdom or enlightenment; otherwise, it is almost impossible by any relative mind or scientific equipment, no matter how much the technology or science may develop, to explore this field.
By Rigzod Editors
